Jason frazell imperfectly empowered podcast with ahna fulmer

Use These Tips To Build Your Side Hustle

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Do you want to start a new job doing something you enjoy? Listen here as growth and leadership coach Jason Frazell shares his own journey and the key to building a successful side hustle.

If you’re feeling stuck in your career or wonder if that side hustle is worth it, then you do NOT want to miss this podcast!

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  • 2 key elements to create a positive work relationship
  • 2 key elements that will create a negative working relationship
  • How leadership traits relate to parenting
  • Powerful business lessons for side hustlers
  • A trait all successful people have in common
  • The lessons Jason learned from transitioning to his side hustle full time
  • How to navigate finances when transitioning to your side hustle full time



Jason is a growth and leadership coach for high impact people and teams in tech and an expert personal brand strategist 

He spent 19 years in the tech industry working at various companies, large and small (including a unicorn startup). He’s been through three acquisitions and has a wealth of experience building companies from the ground up.

As a growth and leadership coach, he works with high-impact people and teams in tech. He has coached high performers and job seekers that work at some of the most prestigious tech companies, including Google, Meta (Facebook), Coinbase, Spotify and more. He also works with tech founders across a variety of markets.

Do you want to start a new job doing something you enjoy? Listen here as growth and leadership coach Jason Frazell outlines unlocking your potential and building a successful side hustle.


Ahna Fulmer Signature

I like what I do, but I don’t believe I’m paid fairly go find another job seriously, for those who are concerned about what they’re going to need, if they don’t like what they do. And they just are doing paycheck, I would start with, what do you need to survive and what it survived mean to you? Welcome to the imperfectly empowered podcast with leading DIY lifestyle blogger on.
Where women are inspired with authentic stories and practical strategies to reclaim their hearts and homes by empowering transformation. One imperfect day at a time. Hi, and welcome back to another episode of the perfectly empowered podcast. I am your host. The former today is my honor to have Jason frazzle on the show.
Jason is an internationally renowned leadership coach and personal branding expert for CEOs, executives, entrepreneurs, and side hustlers alike featured in the New York times and host of the leading podcast, talking to cool people, welcome leadership coach and all around. Cool dude, Jason frazzle, Jason, welcome to the podcast.
So good to be here. Oh, my word. I think this has been hands down the most challenging. Interview I have yet. I think I’ve canceled or I should say rescheduled several times due to unforeseen circumstances. I think you had to schedule reschedule once. And then finally we got the interview started and I realized 30 minutes into it.
What was this a month ago now? I never pressed record. I’ve never done it before or since. So you guys, this is going to be the best interview you’ve ever heard. Yeah, I tell you, I’m so thrilled to have this on your wall. Guesses, the most drama. That’s what I’m going for everywhere. It’s the most drama as a guest.
Oh, my word. Seriously. This has been the most challenging. I don’t know what my deal has been here anyway, and you’re still making it happen. You’re in Denver, Colorado in a hotel and a hotel room. Well, we are making it happen anyway. So we got started last time and I can’t remember what all we were talking about.
We got onto sales and the many, many different things that you have done in your career. You’ve been featured in New York times. You have helped many people build their careers. Tell me a little bit about your earlier years, how you got to where you are today. You’re also a podcast host. You got a lot behind your name.
So tell me a little bit about where you initially see. Yeah. So I was born in Melbourne, Arkansas. I was that’s true. Two o’clock in the morning. My social security number is exactly it was 11, but the funniest thing, just to start with that, as we go through each year in my life from zero to 44, my age now I was born in Arkansas.
We left up for six months and I’ve never been back. So I don’t really consider myself exactly. Exactly. Exactly. No judgment. Yeah. So I, um, so I started my sales career actually in college. So I, my first official sales job was selling advertising for the university of Minnesota school newspaper, which is a big school newspaper still is the biggest called the Minnesota daily.
And that’s where I got my start selling to businesses. And I never looked back. So here we are today, although I don’t specifically tell the businesses anymore, but that’s where I got my first official start in high school. I was always outgoing, extroverted, but didn’t do any actual official sales roles until that, where I’m like, oh wait, when I sell something to somebody, I get a small, very, very, very small portion of it.
As a paycheck back to me, my first commission check, I was like, whoa, this is pretty cool. Then if I do work, actually get paid for, it was a salary. So that’s where I got my start in college. And then out of college, I went right into tech sales. I worked at a company called Nextel, which became sprint, which is now T-Mobile, which is really ironic because my second sales job was at the mall of America in many in Minnesota, where I’m actually from.
So at the T-Mobile store. So it all came full circle, so it all came full circle. I went through the Telekom and then I decided I didn’t like big companies anymore. And I worked at a variety of startups and that was my sales career. And that was almost 20 years. I actually spent quite a bit of time in each of my companies, which I know can be rare in this day and age, but I spent eight years of my first job three and my second five and the second after that.
So I didn’t jump around. And then I jumped around a little bit at the end of my career because I got bored and realized this is not really what I wanted. Yeah, well, sales for 20 years sounds. I think I’d rather go to the dentist. We’ve talked about this. I’m not sales are not my forte. I’m not a sales woman.
I’m like, you don’t want it. Okay. I’m not going to stand here forever and talk you into it. Like. Yeah. It’s so funny to say that about sales, that the idea is that your, your job is to talk people into something. I know, I know it’s not, you’re offering a service back and change their life. People I’m offering you a service that can change your life by it.
Exactly. Well, the funny thing is you actually are a salesperson. People can do business with you. You’re like, I know, I know. Well, as long as I’m not the sales woman that people walk away like cringing from, like you said, there is a way to do sales. There’s a way to not do sales, but yeah, it’s never been my forte.
What was your least favorite sales experience and what was your most favorite sales experience? Yeah. Ooh, well, that’s from the past, at least favorite sales experience was I won’t name the company and it wasn’t really about the company. It was about the manager, right? Yeah. So anybody who’s tale as old as time, there’s nothing new here.
Everybody knows that. And I say this to my clients all the time, a bad boss and a great job makes for a bad job and a great boss at a bad job makes for it could be a decent job. So I had to, and I was fortunate. I only had one boss in my career that I just looked back and like, now. It was obviously didn’t have my interests at heart.
And so working for that person, what made that so miserable was we would do our weekly one-on-one, which is something you generally do in sales. Talk about your pipeline. And I remember distinctly that after those meetings and were run Monday mornings, I would take the rest of the day off. Like it was kind of like a bad relationship or like, it doesn’t matter what I do or what information I give this person.
They’re just gonna like be nice. Yeah. So that was definitely the hardest part of my career. It only lasted about a year and I was pretty resourceful. I made it work anyway. I still sold a bunch of stuff. It just, I just didn’t feel supported. The best job I ever had was probably the job after that. Where I went into my first startup and I got to work on a book of business with a couple of other people and we killed it the first year.
We just happened to be in a spot where we hit the market. I was selling cybersecurity software for mobility. So specifically for iPhone and now. And it was 2011. So we like hit the sweet spot in the market, which has been sales. A lot of it’s just about timing and we just crushed it. We just crushed it. We had a great year, made a bunch of money, had a bunch of happy customers.
And that was just, I woke up every Monday. Like, I can’t believe I get to do this. And I never felt that way again until I started working for myself once in my corporate career. And then got it again. And now I haven’t, I haven’t almost every day, not every single day, almost every day. Yeah. It’s interesting that you noticed.
That what, the word that I heard you say with the bad leadership experience was negativity. And it’s interesting how I think there’s a fine line between obviously there can be a false positive, this sense that you don’t want to falsely convey positivity to somebody when there really is something they need to work on.
There can be constructive criticism presented in a positive way, but it’s interesting that negativity is what. You associated with that bad experience and. With that in mind. And as a leadership coach, what would you say in your experience and in your observation are give me like two words. I gave one already negativity for a bad leadership experience.
And then give me two words that you think exceptionally portray a positive. So you can’t use positive, a positive leader. Dang. I should say you can’t even use negative. You can’t use negative. So two words. Bad leader and two words for a good leader. And again, I always point this out on my podcast because a lot of people hear the idea of leadership coach and they think you have to be in a professional role of some capacity.
I have said this a million times. I’ll say it again. If you have anybody in your life who looks up to you, you are. So you can be a stay-at-home mom and you need leadership coaching. You are just as valuable, if not the most valuable leader that your children will ever ever see. So leadership coaching is for every single person on the planet I would argue.
So what is a good leader and a bad, yeah. So let me give you the two negative words that came up like this. Cause I I’m working on my brevity, so this is perfect. You’re making me work on it. Number one. Number two disconnected. I think those go hand in hand. Okay. So selfish, I think is pretty, self-explanatory elaborate a little bit on disconnected leaders that don’t know what’s actually going on to their people.
I see when you’re a frontline manager or somebody who has direct reports that need things from you, and you’re just not connected to what they’re up to or even worse, what they’re motivated. So the one of the big gaps I see in corporate leadership leadership over all is, and I’m guilty of this too, is I think I’ll speak for myself.
I assume that what motivates me is what motivates others. And that’s not always the case. That’s an excellent point. And so you see this, especially in sales, but sales by definition is where you go to make money and you have commission. And the assumption is that you like to make money. I think everybody likes to make money, but I know salespeople that that’s not actually their number one priority.
Why they do sales like that either have a lot of money or their pump. Well, what they make, if they don’t make a ton of money and they’re actually motivated by winning or learning new technologies and things like that. So as a leader, finding out and pretty easy to find out, you just ask people, but also it doesn’t happen.
Hey, what’s the thing that motivates you. And then staying connected to that and using that as a way to have people excited about what they’re doing. Those are the two words that came up. I’m going to not use connected, cause that would be too easy for that. Make it harder on myself and do some real improv here.
Two sides of a great leader is I’m going to cheat and not use two words for this one, but from the front. So leading from the front do, as I, let me demonstrate for you or show you that I’m willing to do the work too, not to say that managers should be in the doing the day to day, but they should be willing to demonstrate it and model it as opposed to.
You’re going to do this. So that’s number one. Number two is this goes along the line with connected as empathetic. I think this is actually something that has really grown in the last two years with everybody at home and remote work and everything is being more empathetic. And that it’s actually okay.
If it isn’t a perfectly pretty bow around the job, they ended down and the people have a lot of lives. So that’s the other thing. And I coach a lot of younger, like 30 and under. That’s a requirement that style of empathetic, like understanding your employee, what are they up to? What are they motivated by what might be going on around them?
That’s outside of their job that might get his way. That’s something that is requirement now. And at the end of the day, it’s the need to be seen and to be heard like the basic human needs, that wasn’t a thing. Because even for me, 20 years ago, when I started my career, it wasn’t really a thing. It’s like, Hey, here’s your job.
Here’s what are you going to do? And you go out and do it. Yeah, it’s funny as you’re talking, I hear, I mean, obviously from a professional standpoint, so much of what you’re saying is very relatable, but I’m also thinking as a parent, I mean, truly the things that you’re saying, even for a poor leadership example are so true as a parent.
And I think what motivates you? Are you familiar with the Enneagram? Oh, I’m very familiar people either like, oh yes, absolutely. Or they are no. What are you talking about? And I don’t just for buying well, what’s fascinating about it was just having this conversation with some girlfriends. Not that long ago is.
Exactly what you’re saying, this concept of what motivates you is something that any Agram really helped me less to understand myself, but more to help relate to my children. And again, let me point this out. We never want to reduce somebody to a number, especially our very young children who still have to grow and mature, and we want them to have the freedom to grow into whoever God has made them to be.
However. My girls that was really helpful because I am an eight at my core, but I’m also a very, very. I’m a seven with a wing six, but I’m a closed state. My number three. Okay. So a three is one of my other, very, very high numbers. So I always joke that I’m an overachieving Karen, because I’m a high eight and a super high three, but I’m an overachieving.
Karen who’s been graciously transformed by Jesus. So I’d like to think I’m a little nicer than what I otherwise. But not a salesperson I’m full of dichotomies, but what’s interesting is my girls are very much a distinct part of me. So my oldest is like textbook three. My youngest is only four and granted she’s got many years to go, but she is like textbook eight right now.
And it helped me because there were certain elements of both girls. They’re so much like me, but they’re two very distinct parts of me. And so. I parent them differently. Like, Gracie’s very concerned about how people perceive her, has some more like inherent insecurities that come along with being a three that I realized, okay, I have to parent her differently when she is feeling insecure.
I cannot just be like, suck it up. That’s the eight part of me that wants to be like, who cares what they think. Like, I can’t do that with her because she does care and that’s okay. That’s part of her response. My youngest on the other hand, She is like the harder you push her, she will push back just for the sake of pushing back.
She could not care less what people think of her. And in fact, if you don’t like what she’s doing, she is going to do it all the more. And so it really helped me recognize. The two very distinct ways. My son, on the other hand, God only knows. We don’t even know there is no Enneagram number for this child yet.
Like we just don’t know with him. I literally looked up the other day. Cause I was like, God, I don’t know what to do with this boy. Like, I don’t know how to parent this child. So anyway, Lots of grace needed for him. But my point is this, what you said is so applicable that I humbly have had to recognize that it is important for me to recognize that what motivates my children, especially my girls, even though they are so similar to me is still potentially very different.
Then myself. So I think it’s an important side. Note that as a parent, everything that you’re saying is so applicable, find out what motivates your kids. The Enneagram helped me. I realized there’s many different ways of going about that. They might not be able to verbalize what motivates them at this point.
But anyway, I love what you said because I’m just sitting here thinking I’ve had to do that. Self-reflection as a parent, Leading my children. And I don’t know in your experience how you have what you would say to that, but yeah, we have a six year old and one and a half year old olds, the one and a half year old, like pretty much motivated by breaking himself, breaking down, hitting the dog.
Yeah. Thinking about that. I think I know what motivates her, but I think she might be a little young to worry about that. Just motivated by this stuff that most six year olds are motivated by, but as we get older, for sure, is there a personality grows, interesting leadership coaching for parents? That’s an interesting.
Honestly though, the more that I have people on here who are leadership coaches, I think there are so many parenting takeaways because we don’t think of parenting enough like leadership, but there is no greater leadership position. I think we too often think of a leader as somebody who is simply in the limelight they’re in front, they have this like professional role, but there is no greater leadership role.
That have a parent. You have been all over the map in terms of your career, you have so, so many experiences under your belt. One of the things, whether we’re talking parenting or professional leadership in general, even just building a business as you help people do now, what is one of the greatest challenges that you have faced personally?
Tell me a little bit about how you overcame that, whether it was a mistake made in the lesson learned, or just a challenge that you had to conquer. Can you think of a point in your career that especially stands out? I can think of about 20. I’ll give you one. This is working for myself and this is something that I’ve come to realize.
And I believe that most entrepreneurs, business owners, people that work for themselves and need to generate their own income, find out. Is that skill is not enough just being good at what you do when you’re by yourself is not enough. You have to have some marketing, you have to have some brand and you’d have it.
Doesn’t have to be fancy, but you have to have a presence out there. And this is especially true for me is I have a lot of training hours as a coach. Nobody hires me because I have a lot of training hours for a coach. Give me another example. How many people do you know that hire a personal trainer? I have a trainer when I met him.
I didn’t ask him how many hours he had her. Could you show me the exact format, how to do this thing? Because you’ve done it. I hired him because I thought that he was a person that could help me. And because I met him through networking. And so that’s a form of marketing and sales. So the number one thing I’ve learned the hard way and how I got through it.
Just being like being good at something isn’t enough. People have to know about it and arguably being good at it is not the most important thing, because you might be the perfect person for somebody in the worst person for somebody else, regardless of your skill level. Right. And so for me, this is a very typical.
Little journey is that’s a hard thing to stomach. Sometimes when you spend a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of energy on yourself. Like if you’re doing like work on your body, you’re doing mindset work and you’re doing all these things and you’re spending all this time, money, energy, and it’s hard work.
And then you’re not getting the results you want, which by the way, I never get the results I want because I’m really impatient. So that’s the other thing that I have this dichotomy. Yeah. Great. So this should have happened yesterday. So I had this confluence of a lot of money, time, energy training, go to what I do coupled with it’s never fast enough, which came to the middle, which had me be like, what the heck is going on.
This sucks. And just having and through coaching through therapy, through having a great. Third grade support system, just working through that, like, Hey, this is actually normal. I think there’s a lot of power to normalization and this is what I coach people on now. Like, you know, I coach a lot of founders of startups and this is very normal, amazing products that can change the world and nobody knows about them.
And it’s hard because it’s really hard to get that first deal in that second deal or make that big hire. And that a lesson in all of this is to me is consistency and time and market. If you can do those, those two things be consistent, three things actually consistent. He showing up, meaning you don’t disappear for a month, two months, if you’re a podcast.
So you don’t stop podcasts and go three months because you don’t have the numbers you want. And a lot of podcasts let’s do that. It’s selling up, keep doing what you’re doing. If you know you’re doing it well. And then the third thing is just keep putting out a good product. So if you’re a coach, do good work with your clients.
If you’re whatever it is you’re doing, just keep showing up and over time, I do believe. That it works out and you have to invest in yourself. It’s really hard to do this all by yourself, whether that’d be marketing, sales, coaching, whatever it is. It’s really hard to sit by yourself and try to generate a business that I don’t think most people tell you that when you go on and work for yourself, nobody told me that.
I don’t know if anybody told you that. Yeah, no, but it, nobody had to tell me that because I very quickly was like, what? I have no idea what I’m doing. Where are my people? Bring me some people networking, all these things. No. Oh my word. Yeah. No, it did not take me long at all to read. Okay. I have not been able to do this on my own.
That’s for sure. I don’t even know what I’m doing. I think you may have already said the word, but if you could sum up the secret to success in one word or phrase, what would it be? It’s such a loaded question. Loaded. Yup.
Maybe just in general, between the clients that you’ve seen succeed, your own personal experience. Is there sort of a universal in your mind, a universal truth that is consistently seeing success in people’s lives? Yeah. Hmm. Okay. I wasn’t expecting that one. I think you’re the first one does. Yeah, well, I do want to caveat.
I don’t believe that success is universal and since that’s for each of us could mean something different. So it’s hard to do that, but let me expand upon that. Just a little bit people that I know that are successful generally have found a way to make money doing what they love and also have joy in their life.
I know people that are very wealthy that have no joy in their life. I don’t think we would think they were successful marriages. Chad relationships, drug abuse. I know people that, I think the average income household income, the United States is like the sixties, 66,000 or something, which, you know, I live in the east coast.
You live on the east coast as well. So then won’t get you very far. People are wildly happy making that depending on what they’re doing. So it’s not for me. When I hear success, I try to get away from the money thing because I don’t know, but for me, like people have joined their life and the joy might be their job might be their home.
If you can get all that work in together. And have a purpose. That’s what I think is the thing that has people be successful. Most people I know would take less money to do something they love, as long as they can pay the bills and cover what the things are. Most people I know if they’re motivated solely by money, they’re likely going to go into a sort of professional, like a finance or something where I’ve yet to meet somebody who works in finance.
Who’s happy. And I’m not talking about like personal finance or financial plan talking about, I work at a big bank or investment banking. And you go do that. But then I know that a lot of the people are just not happy. They don’t have a lot of joy in their life working their butts off, get a good paycheck and it’s not good.
So joy Janet said, I would say, I love that. And it’s also conveying this idea of, of gratitude is really what I’m hearing. It’s this concept that if you want to see success in your life, it’s not necessarily a monetary outcome or even a physical. Or objective outcome, but this idea that maybe success is simply being very grateful and joyful in where you’re at and that may in and of itself yield the results that you are looking for.
At least it’s going to probably make it a lot more likely to happen. Yeah. Well, let me give you an example. Here, you buy services for people, right? When people buy services from you. Are you more likely to buy services from somebody that shows up authentic and joyful and passionate about what they do, but you can usually set for me, you can usually sense the difference between I’m selling you and I genuinely care the genuinely care.
I know you and I come from the same community where we just have a whole group of people that do care about what they do, which is one of the things that makes it amazing, but that’s contagious and there’s so many. People that we buy things from that is just obvious. They’re just there for the paycheck.
And I feel bad because Mike I’ve been there too, man, or woman, like whatever I’ve been there. So, yeah. And that’s the thing is, I think it’s also can be really hard to choose, to find joy depending on the profession you’re in. Especially if you do it because you need to do it. And I’m well aware that there are many people, they, they need to do what they need to do.
So this is not that there’s anything wrong with any sort of allowed there, but not everybody gets to choose to do something that they think is going to join because they just need to do what they need to do for themselves. Yeah, that’s a great point. And still trying to find the things that you can be grateful for, despite that job that you don’t love is also going to help you pull through that season as I’m Jason and I can both attest to we’ve both been in those seasons.
Well, when we come, we’re going to take a quick break. When we come back, we’re going to play a speed round of, would you rather. Or I shouldn’t say this or that with Jason. And then we’re going to chat about his expert advice on how to build and monetize your brand and really how to start over how to become an entrepreneur.
Maybe get out of that job that you don’t love. Right. When we come back from this break, you have tried it all. Worried you will never lose the extra weight or reclaim the energy you once enjoyed want to achieve fat loss without spending hours in a gym or eliminating entire food groups from your diet.
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The free seven day fat loss accelerator course today and start your own transformation story. All right. We are back here with Jason. He is rocking his look in his Colorado hotel here. What’s the weather like where you are? I think it’s 35 right now. Yeah, it’s very cold here. And last night I flew in last night.
It was a rough landing. It was very, very winter. Oh, I think they’re getting a cold. I don’t know what the temperature’s gonna be later this week, but it’s, I believe it’s opening weekend for the Rockies here. I’m standing right by the Colorado Rockies stadium and it could be a quite cold opener.
Yeah. It’s like, I don’t care. I’m in my hotel room. I’m comfortable.
Alright, well this or that, would you rather candy or baked goods? Candy. What’s your favorite candy? Hardest question of the hour, jolly ranchers. I’m a much more of a hard candy, not hard candy. I much prefer flavored candy than chocolate, which my wife is the exact opposite, like Mike and Ike’s nerds, jolly ranchers.
Wow. So what’s your favorite jolly rancher flavor? Because this is a very controversial question.
Great. That’s fair, actually, that would’ve probably been, yeah, I sucked on more jolly ranchers than I have in my entire life during my pregnancies. Like I would never, ever choose a jolly rancher, but when I was pregnant it just helped not feel as nauseous. Yeah. So I instantly get like, sort of negative, I think, jolly ranchers
to my stomach. Okay. I’m not pregnant. I’m not nauseous. We’re good. All right. Would you rather be a pirate or a ninja? Would you rather have a personal yacht or a personal jet yet? Where are you taking your yet? Uh, well, I take it around the world, but I think I probably had the Mediterranean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I feel more than already. Let me the yacht. I can live on it. I don’t want to live on a plane no matter how nice it is. Yeah. That would be my, yeah, absolutely. That would be my answer. I’ve always said if I had lots and lots of funds, extra funds available, I would be so into a boat. I will change my first answer.
If I could be a pirate, but live on a yacht, I would rather be a pirate than a ninja, but if it was on an old crappy gallium, then I would rather be a ninja ninja skills living on a yacht, probably not as helpful unless pirates are attacking your yacht, then you can. Oh, are you wanting to board another yacht?
Being a ninja boarding? Another yacht would be very helpful. Might be helpful for the window. Yeah, that’s fair. Well, listen, we have everything figured out here. We’ve got our ninja skills on our yet. We’re done. We’re done. We’re good. Interview over. Alright. Be for chicken. Give a favorite dish. Like, do you have a favorite dish that comes to mind when you say beef, but like a really good stink comedian rare filet.
I don’t need a ton of red meat, but I do really enjoy a good steak. I grew up in the Midwest. Yeah. Also a controversial question. Where is the best steak that you can buy or the mistake you’ve ever had? Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. Well, I live in New York city. We got a lot of good steak houses, which is interesting as you bring this up, I don’t love steak houses.
I find them to be just way over the top. You go and take a $60 piece of meat and like a $30 like side that the amount of calories is insane. Um, I’m trying to think the best steak I’ve ever had is probably stripped, which is in the village in New York city. It’s amazing. I know it’s called strip. It’s called strip.
Yeah. Okay. So the restaurant is called strip in New York. Yeah, I think it’s still there. It’s in the village said great steak house. I just, I don’t remember what kind of ad as well, but I remember it was I’ll throw mine out there for anybody who is really into steak. I also am. That would be like a surf and turf is my favorite.
I’m hungry. Just thinking about it. Okay. My favorite for anyone interested is Stony river is the name of the restaurant and we would go there. There’s one in Townson, Maryland. So near Baltimore in Maryland, there’s only a couple of these restaurants around the country. So Stoney river, best steak I’ve ever had.
One of the best restaurants, my absolute favorite. So we have strip in New York city, Stoney river in Towson, Maryland. There’s also more Stony rivers across the country, but anyone wants a good steak. There you go, you get nothing else from this interview. Are you, uh, are you looking for sponsors here? Cause I think this is great.
You’d be like this episode sponsored by Stony river. This episode is sponsored by state. Oh,
my word, this coming from somebody who is also like you, I don’t need a ton of red meat because we have high cholesterol. Well, I won’t go into all that, but if I die of anything, it’ll probably be a heart attack. Thanks to my genetics. Yay. Look at that. Listen. Hey, you gotta go. You gotta go some way, shape or form.
So whatever, we’ll see, God knows. Are you an early bird or a night owl? That’s such a good question being that it’s Denver and we’re doing this and some of them, I am. I’m going to give you a both end, which is a challenge. So I wake up early. When I hear night out, I think past 10:00 PM, for me, it was like nine hours.
So I don’t work late. I don’t like doing work late, but I don’t like to just go to bed and play video games or watch something on TV. But I also wake up early. So I usually get up around six I’m in Denver, but I’m on east coast time. Sound’s up to like five 15. But my, my body’s, like I said too late for me.
I have to share this with you. As you ask, our six year old daughter has gotten her mom’s ability to sleep in late. Which is not useful on a school day, as you know, he also, doesn’t like to go to bed like me, which is a really terrible combination for a six year old. She doesn’t like to get into the flight to go to bed.
Yeah. I completely understand that. That’s my oldest. That’s my oldest. Yeah. Sleeping and yeah, night. Oh, we paid for the next morning because they won’t get out of bed. No, no, no, no. I’m about to resort to like the dripping water on the face type of a thing. Cause it is seriously I’m, I’m headed down that route.
It’s true. Yeah. Yes, these children. And then there’s my son who is people don’t understand that I have had to force myself to become a morning person. I have a whole podcast episode on it, like establishing an early morning routine has changed my life. I love it, but it is not natural for me. It’s so hard to get up early in the morning.
And then there’s my son who just is naturally wide awake between six 30 and eight. Every morning. See, that’s so lovely. I would love to just like be awake instead of force myself get out of, I also do not like the lay in bed. So when I wake up and my eyes open, I am out. I am not. You weren’t really worrying.
People don’t understand. It’s so you feel terrible. It’s like, you feel like you could not possibly get out of bed right now. Yeah. Well, I’m happy for you. I’m like, I’m happy inside. Really. I hate you, but I’m like, I like you on the outside.
So jealous, so jealous. Why anyway, if any of you want to learn how to establish an early morning or Dean, you can look it up on my podcast. Look it up on my blog. It’s taken a lot of work. It is possible though. It’s certainly been one of the secrets to success in my life. So moving on from early morning routines, we talked a little bit about this entrepreneurial journey.
So you were in sales, a corporate career, if you will, for. Two decades. And both of us have similar stories in that regard, I was in a corporate career for a decade and a half. And then you moved into this entrepreneur world and something that is not talked about a lot is this, it’s easy to look at the success then as an entrepreneur, but we rarely talk about that.
Struggle that all of us end up having to go through no matter how successful we were in the corporate. And the sacrifices made in that season where you are transitioning, share with me a little bit about what it looked like for you to go from that corporate career, where you had that, uh, in a sense, guaranteed income, just suddenly becoming an entrepreneur where you’re now.
Like it’s up to you and you need to figure out how to fund, what kind of sacrifices did you make? How long do you feel like, or maybe you’re still in it. I am currently in that process of making a profit and seeing that return on top of your investment. Let’s just tell me a little bit about that in between an encouragement for people who are like, I could never do it or I’m in it.
Will I ever be out. Yeah, this is, I love this question. So I’ll speak for myself and then I’ll give a more general thing for, cause I don’t, it doesn’t sound like you’re asking about like service-based entrepreneurs. This could be somebody opening a store. Like it doesn’t matter. Like, yeah. So for me, the struggle that I had was the anonymous part of the podcast, but this is actually what it has said.
It’s about totally blank. Yeah. After I did not have two paychecks after getting a paycheck every two weeks for 20 years and realizing, oh, those that pay bills. So I haven’t replaced that. Yeah. Which is really hard mentally. I had saved, I had it, but we, my wife and I we’d never needed dip into savings for anything.
It was like buying a piece of real estate or something or a car. So the idea that I was at the age of 41 at the time that I was gonna draw down from savings to pay bills. So crushing for me because I had, so that was like the hardest part for me. And then the second thing that was hard was the booms and the bus that happened.
And I still have this in my business today. Like I had my January, wasn’t saying, and then I had a slow February, decent March and April should be good. But the idea that it’s all like, I’m still getting used that because in sales that gets you fired. Sales when you work for somebody else, it’s all about consistency.
So the idea that like, it doesn’t matter if this money comes in now or it comes in later, it’s just money that goes in that you can use versus the rhythm of having a paycheck. Like, oh, this paycheck, we pay a thousand dollars towards the mortgage and the kids, whatever, and clothes and all those things.
And now it’s like, it’s just a big sum of money. So I’ll have big sums of money coming at once and then nothing come in for a month at a time. So that’s been a challenge mentally. About of nodes. Like for me personally, you get a lot of nos in what I do, and I’m good with. I was going to notice on my sales career, but, and no one is people saying no to you is different than people saying no to this software is too expensive or something that was hard.
I think I’m getting pretty good at it now, because then it’s not generally about me. And even if it’s about me, then we’re probably just not a good fit. And that’s fine because kind of work I do is mostly is all relationship-based. So it needs to be a good fit. We need to have good synergy and all those things.
That’s what I would say for me, the biggest challenge was the financial thing, but more about outside of the actual dollars and cents. What did it mean about. As a father, as a husband, as a person in the world used to doing well and being in sales and saying, Hey, like, my life was all about how much did I sell and how much money did I make, not my whole life.
But that was two. Well, if I take that same, those same group of metrics and put them against me this year, I’m a piece of poop. I’m a piece of poop. When you’re in your feelings and in your deepen your own assessment, your brain likes to forget that this is a natural part of how it’s going to go related to back.
That was so for me, that was the challenge. It’s still a challenge for me sometimes. I mean, I would imagine for most people who were selling their own services or doing more solopreneur work, there’s always going to be a challenge savings. I just wanted to point out because. I am so blessed because we really live on what my husband makes for me.
It’s supplemental. So that has been, and he has gone above and beyond to take extra opportunities to help buffer us a little bit, because we did go from significant supplemental to not so significant supplemental when I stepped away from medicine. So he has given me that, which I honor him for him. So thankful, but.
I think for many men where you are at, I so appreciate you sharing because it is really different when you are the primary provider from a financial standpoint. So for those men listening, who are questioning, how can I do this? Did you transition at all while you were still in sales? Cause I think that’s a huge piece of it that I want to point out is that very rarely are entrepreneurs just suddenly stopping and starting.
There’s usually some overlap. And if you are dreaming of starting up your own business, but you’ve not taken any first steps. Most entrepreneurs who are successful are taking first steps while they’re double-dipping it’s exhausting. I did the same thing, but you have to start now tell me a little bit about how you did that.
How did you budget that into your work week? Because you were probably taking up a lot of hours already for your job? I think that’s the number one question. When is the time? How do I have time to do that? I was fortunate that, so yes, I side hustle. The full-time. I could not recommend that enough, do not just quit your job and go be like in today, I’m going to do this.
It can work out. You are decreasing your odds by doing that. So our friend Rory has a great thing and he said, sometimes you just have to do what you need to do until you get to do what you want to do. I believe that, and I believe that that’s part of the side hustle. So depending on the business, so this depends.
If you’re like, Hey, I have a passion for becoming. I’m going to randomly make up, make something up. And I’m saying this because I saw, I was watching the person sitting next to me on the plaintiffs. They was watching HDTV. So, and they were watching fixer-upper. So if you have a pet owner, if you’re a fixer-upper fan, I like, I like chip and Joanna.
Um, if you’re a fan, if you’re somebody like, Hey, I want to, I want to open up a fine woodworking business. You can’t really side hustle that business in terms of it’s a labor intensive thing. You need to be working with your hands, but if you are something that’s like, Hey, I want to start. I want to be a personal trainer.
You can start by taking on a client or two clients, figuring out how to make that work within your schedule. Same with coaching, with consulting, with brand strategy, where speaking coaches, if those are things you want to do, when you want to be more of a service provider, go get a client and do it for free.
If you need to, to get the experience one, to make sure you want to do it, make sure you want to do it because it’s. And so you need to want to do it in order to go back to what I said earlier to have the consistency of the stamina. So that’s number one, number two, don’t quit your job. Like don’t run away and get laid off.
If something happens, that’s a place that you might want to go, Hey, what’s next for me? You don’t want to be in a position where your business is just starting to take off, but it’s not quite there. And you have to go back and get a job. Cause you just don’t have the. ’cause that’s more heartbreaking than anything when you’re seeing momentum, but you’re not where you want to be.
And then you have to say, well, I have to give up on this thing and go back. And I know so many people, like, I think the average I’ll speak just to coaching because I know the space. Well, I think the average coach in the United States, this is overall life coaches, business coaches, the average length that people run their businesses, a blanket it’s like a year and nine months.
And it’s a grind finding clients. Figuring out who you are and what you do and how you serve people. And the reality is after your nine months plus people that haven’t made enough money, they have to go back and do it. And my assertion would be, if they waited a little bit longer, it would probably start to work for them.
People need, people need to pay the bills. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and what would you say to the, you know, the, the financial aspect too? I think there’s a lot of, um, concern just in the idea of. Money. It’s like the idea of money can be extreme on either side. Sometimes we can under prioritize it, meaning we don’t give enough attention.
We’re not using the money that we have well enough. And we should be, that can be a bad thing on the flip side. Sometimes we can over glorify it and be so concerned about saving every single penny and, um, Become overly stingy on the other side, where we’re almost glorifying it to the point where we’re saving every single penny and maybe not spending enough in terms of like getting into a job that you love with the financial mindset.
I’m sure you see this a lot now. I feel like men, especially. And I think it’s probably a societal expectation because of traditionally speaking, they tend to be more of the provider that certainly shifting. Um, but I think there is still just inherent expectation that men have on themselves to meet certain financial landmarks in their life.
You touched on this a little bit, the idea of joy and gratitude and how sometimes that is enough success. When that’s the measurement, but speak a little bit to the, to the male mindset for somebody listening. Who’s just really concerned about the financial aspect of their job, and maybe it is holding them back from doing what they want to do.
Maybe they are moving too fast into what they want to do. Speak into that a little bit. Yeah. Two things, one it’s an employee market. So if you’re skilled, go out and find another job that pays you, what you want. So for those listening, who are I don’t, I like what I do, but I don’t believe I’m paid fairly go find another job.
Seriously, the job market’s insane right now in a good way for skilled. And this is not even this, a matter of woman thing, you go in and find something that’s a better fit for you. And that probably is arguably never a better time to do that. For those who are concerned about. The what they’re going to need, if they don’t like what they do.
And they just are doing paycheck, I would start with, what do you need to survive and what it survived mean to you? So for me and my wife survived does not mean reading ramen noodles and the kids are wearing clothes that are too small for them. That’s not survival for us. We have a higher expectation, like charitable donations and those sorts of things.
So figure out what you need to survive. What’s your runway. So I think that’s another really important thing. What’s your runway. And like you said, with your husband, he’s taken on some extra stuff. I don’t know what your husband does, but cool. Like, are you willing to take on some other things because you can usually find part-time work through Upwork or if you’re like a marketer or a design or a sales, like there’s a lot of sorts of contract work that you can take on as you’re doing your primary thing, it gives you more flexibility.
The thing that is shocked. I’m guessing, you know, you were on your feet and working inside locations, you’re in health care. So like you report here, you have your time part and you’re here, right? The context shift that happens when suddenly you go, nobody’s telling you what to do with my time anymore.
What am I going to do in my time? And that’s a real mind trip for a lot of entrepreneurs too is so what do I do now? And you’ve got all these ideas of things you want to do, but you’re not sure where to start. That’s the other thing too, is. Run the money part, figured out the steps and get help with that.
So you can invest in coaching. You can invest in things. There’s tons of free resources out there. There’s tons of books. Great. But figure out your priorities. And you said it started yesterday. If that’s a business plan or that’s getting more training or that’s working on your brand and doing that so that when you are ready and you do leave your job or you move into part-time or whatever it is you decide to do.
You’ve got some sort of momentum. So you don’t go from, and I’ve never. I know, I don’t know how to sky. I’ve never been skydiving. That’s how you would say it. I was trying to think of like, I’m not sure, but my understanding is one of the things that’s really shocking is you’re moving horizontally vertically, and that’s like a very strange thing for your body.
I would imagine it’s a lot like that with it is a lot like that. At least it was for me is I know where I’m going and suddenly like, wait, I’m moving in a different direction. Right. Right. So just being clear about that and if you’re not clear, Again, there’s so many resources that you can pay for that are free.
If you’re married about it, get support and don’t do it alone. Because the thing I would say is entrepreneurship and solopreneurship especially, it can be very lonely, even if you are a service-based business and you recommend people can be very lonely. Yeah. Yeah. That’s what I’m saying. And then the financial planning, like what is your runway before you need to make a dollar?
That’s a good, that’s a question. I ask people, Hey, how long can you go without making $1? Well, the whole concept of financial planning, I think is such a great point because this is something that is so neglected when I think back in high school and some of the dumb courses and classes that I teach.
Where was the financial planning course, this simple idea of managing a bank account like we are. So there’s times I’m just my, my mind’s blown when I look back and I think, wait, like why did I take how to do your laundry? And home-ec when I could have been learning how to manage my bank account. I mean, seriously, it’s kind of mind blowing and I think that’s a great point that you’re making the, I want to reiterate too, whether you are man or woman, but the fact is depending on how you were raised, This can go both ways.
You could have been raised in a home that did not make a ton of money, but you were taught really, really good financial management. On the flip side, you could have been raised in a home with a lot of money and never taught a single thing about financial management or planning. You could have been raised in a home where you made a lot of money.
And a lot of money was spent and there was not good financial planning and you were still not taught about, so there’s all these subconscious, you know, you may have a certain idea of what finances looks like just simply by osmosis and what you saw in your home. And it may or may not be good. My husband and I had two very different my inherent mindset.
We can make more, which is not necessarily good. The we’re in very much the fixer upper world, we’re wrapping up our third fixer upper, where I started with our first house to where I am right now, worlds apart because I had to learn so much about financial planning, but in my head it was like, I’ll make more, I’ll find a way to make more, like, I’ll find a way to make this up.
And. Positives to that I’ve learned, I very much have an entrepreneur mindset, but the danger is I had no education behind. So we were way behind on credit card payments because I was impatient and I didn’t want to wait until we had enough money to fix this part of our house. So I say that only to reiterate what you’re saying.
I think one of the number one things is make sure that you take a financial course from somebody who truly knows what they’re talking about and understand, because. You may not, you may think you do, but you may not. We don’t want to make assumptions because you don’t want to be scared of money. You don’t want to glorify it.
You also don’t want to be scared of it. It’s just a tool. It’s not a destination. Well, I will wrap with the money thing here in tele. Like one of the things that always comes up in coaching is money. And the question I ask clients is what’s your story about. We all have a story about money. What’s your story about money?
So I grew up just to share, as you shared, I grew up that you can’t make more money, but the way you make more money is by working your butt off. And it’s not because. Um, how I was raised, my parents aren’t actually really like that. It’s because I just always see soft, hard work and grind is the way to do it.
That’s not necessarily true anymore. Like I don’t, I find the way generally the times that I make the most money in my business, when I’m not grinding, when it comes from ease or I kind of left, it kind of had to take care of me. But yeah, we all have a story about money and whatever your story is about money for those listening.
When you work for yourself, that story is going to become very. And in your face, I would be shocked. It was for me like, oh, wow. Look at all these beliefs I have about money and suddenly you’re like, oh wait. And now it’s on me. Okay. That’s different. Mm. I love that. That’s a great question. What is your story about money and how do you perceive money?
So let’s, let’s wrap with this. Cause I think this is there’s so much, so much good stuff here. What resources do you send people to, depending on their story and beliefs about money. So for people listening, I think this is such a great place to start. Really, no matter whether you want to be an entrepreneur or not, what resources do you send people when it comes to having an appropriate, healthy, beneficial mindset about money?
Yeah, so I don’t have a re I don’t have a resource. My best advice would be, do not be afraid to get a financial. Mm, because the find somebody you like find somebody that you believe has you and your family’s best interests at heart financial planners, they make, they usually make a percentage of your assets under management, but their job is to make sure that you’re at what their fee gets buried underneath the returns.
You get that on the way on top of what you would get otherwise. Yeah. So I know people like, oh, I can’t afford a financial planner. There are financial planners of all things. So that’d be the first research is find somebody. And if you like Dave Ramsey, for example, there’s a whole list of Dave Ramsey.
Dave Ramsey has got a ton of resources too. And well, it also depends, right. Are we talking about how to get out of debt? Are we talking about how to buy a home? Like there’s different parts of financial things, right. If we’re talking about scaling businesses, like scaling your entrepreneurial business, I think.
There’s a ton of free resources from great coaches and business coaches out there around how do you start? How do you grow? How do you scale from a one-to-one to one-to-many? How do you market, you know, you and I met through brand builders, brand builders. This is what we talked about, like at a very affordable cost.
How do you learn to build your personal brand? So you can grow that way? I mean, honestly, like if you’re not as Google, like how to start a blank business, there’s going to be a bunch of stuff. The one thing I will say, there’s a bunch of stuff in with a Benny founders, a bunch of stuff was good. There’s not so good stuff that is true.
Is there any one person that you could think of that you would be like? Yeah, I would hang my hat on this person’s advice. When it comes to financial financial planner in Ohio, mark in Ohio, mark in Ohio, just Google marketing, Ohio, mark, and Ohio. Now he’s our guy for 17 years. I was with him right before I met my wife.
And he’s just been our person he’s been. A game-changer products like our rock and not, if you don’t have to make a lot of money, he’s helped us with what insurance we need when we had our children. Like, what should we do? He doesn’t get paid for that, but he’s a smart guy. Yeah. He honestly he’s my resource.
Well, and I think to that point, so for somebody listening. We might not have a specific name for you, but I would say this spine, somebody who you do respect, who you feel like has managed their finances as well and ask them, do they have a financial planner? Do you recommend your financial planner? And then that would be a great way to try to find a place to start for yourself.
In that regard, we probably all have somebody in our life who we respect, how they have managed their finances and then get a recommendation. It’s hard to beat a personal recommendation. So I think that’s a great way to start. Jason. We could cover so much more. Tell me where people can find you if they want.
You’re also a podcast host. We haven’t even touched on. A two-time podcast to podcast. I had the privilege of being interviewed for one of them, which was super fun. So tell us a little bit about your podcast and where people can find you if they want to learn more. They want leadership, coaching, business coaching, all of the above.
Absolutely. Yeah. So two podcasts one’s called talking to. You were an ice episodes coming out soon. Can’t wait to do that. We got so many things and that’s what, so many things. It’s great talking to cool people. It’s a long form style podcast where I talk to people that I think are cool and I think most people are cool.
So if anybody’s interested in coming on to the. As long as you are willing to get a little vulnerable and have some fun. You’re good guests. My business podcast is called talking to tech people. I just launched it a month ago. The business focus podcast, I talked to founders, CEOs, movers, and shakers and tech had.
Somebody come on and talk about crypto. So that’s more of a, either technical podcasts or more of a business related podcasts. So if you know of anybody there, I’m looking for people that work in tech specifically. So for example, I have the CEO of an electric motorcycle company coming on that statue saying great.
Yeah. So, and you can find those in all the major networks, if you just search by name, both of those will come up. And so when people go into my website, it’s just my name. So that’s Jason frazzle. So that’s J S O N F R a Z E L L. Yep. And all my stuff’s on there and podcasts, the things I do got some free resources on there.
Yeah. I’d just love to hear from people connect, whether they think we want to do business together. We want to talk about it. You want to come on the podcast. You want to tell me how. This podcast is so much better than mine. I’m open to all of it. It’s different. It’s definitely not better. That is for sure.
Yeah. Talking to cool people. You guys need to check out that podcast. I enjoyed the questions that I was asked are fun. They’re fun questions. That’s what I’m committed to. Fun and joy. That’s right. I love that. Well, Jason, thank you for the fun and joy that you bring. Thanks for this interview and I pray God’s richest blessings on your home, your family, your sweet baby.
Finances your finances. Hey, like you said, I would take joy any day over money. Money is a tool. People, not a destination. Yeah. Thank you so much. So. Thanks, Jason, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the imperfectly empowered podcast. It is my honor to be here with you. I am so grateful for each and every one of you.
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